Two fandom tropes that piss me off

[snorkackcatcher]

(1) Doctor Who: The Doctor is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the Master becoming PM -- because he ousted Harriet Jones! Oh noes!

(Seen all over the place, most recently in this The Doctor is a big meanie who hasn't apologised! post.)

OK, let's put aside the question of whether or not the Doctor was right or wrong to turn against PM Jones at the end of The Christmas Invasion, shall we? Because it's completely fucking irrelevant here. Let's just look at the show canon and apply some elementary common sense instead.

The election the Master won as Harry Saxon is some 18-24 months after the fall of Harriet Jones. Now I don't know about you, but to me the idea that no-one was in office in 10 Downing Street in that intervening time is unlikely even for Doctor Who. Saxon!Master clearly didn't just get a walkover in the election (The Sound of Drums), he actually had opponents, presumably including the then current PM. He beat them in a landslide by using the mass hypnotic effect of the Archangel network. If Harriet Jones had been his opponent instead -- hey, same network, same effect, same result.

Oh right, if she'd still been in power she might not have given him the original Cabinet job that let him develop the Archangel network? Suuuure. Um, this is the Master we're talking about here? Lots of Timelordly powers, his own highly advanced hypnotic skills, no conscience, plus whatever resources he can find in the Doctor's Tardis? Is anybody seriously contending that he wouldn't have been able to get himself into a suitable position whoever held the PM job? No, the Doctor's actions with Harriet Jones made no difference whatsoever.


(2) Harry Potter: Poor Lavender Brown is HIDEOUSLY SCARRED from being savaged by Greyback in the Battle of Hogwarts! Oh noes!

(Again, seen all over the place, most recently in snegurochka_lee's odd challenge fic The Silver Arrow.)

Why is it that fandom leaps immediately to the most melodramatic possible interpretation of anything to do with werewolves? Often against the clear or even explicit sense of the text? In this case, everyone seems to equip Lavender with Bill-like scarring; indeed usually it's worse -- going all down her breasts as well as her face. Let's just look at the book canon and apply some elementary textual analysis instead.

... Two bodies fell from the balcony overhead as they [the Trio coming down the stairs] reached the ground and a grey blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen.

"NO!" shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand Fenrir Greyback was thrown backwards from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown. He hit the marble banisters and struggled to return to his feet, Then, with a bright white flash and a crack, a crystal ball fell on the top of his head and he crumpled to the ground and did not move.

Now I don't know about you, but to me that immediately suggested that JKR was trying to convey the idea that Hermione stopped Greyback savaging Lavender -- in other words, that 'to sink its teeth into one of the fallen' represented intention rather than success. Read that way, it's a nice little character moment -- Hermione rescuing her former rival from the fate of being hideously maimed by Greyback (with an assist from Trelawney), doubtless remembering her own reactions when threatened by him. Read the alternative Standard Fanon Melodrama way, in which Lavender's face/body gets ripped to shreds first, it would be a great deal less effective, no?

Oh right, you can claim to read it the SFM way? Suuuure. Um, this is Hermione we're talking about, who is shown as reacting extremely fast to the threat. Greyback has to cross the hall to get to Lavender, and isn't going to have time for more than a single quick bite at worst (probably the neck, given that was what he seemed to be targeting with Hermione herself, and that we can assume Lavender is berobed?).

Is anybody seriously contending that Hermione just stood around watching for a few minutes while Greyback tore Lavender apart? No, her actions made all the difference.

Comments

[plaid-slytherin.livejournal.com]

Not sure about Lavender's scarring or lack thereof, but I just realized that I've been reading that passage wrong since July. I thought Lavender had been dueling Greyback on the balcony, he pounced on her and they fell. So I thought he'd been scratching at her the whole time they were falling and that Hermione had blasted him off of her so she wouldn't hit the ground with him on top of her.

So we still don't know who the other person that fell is?

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

Doctor Who: The Doctor is DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the Master becoming PM -- because he ousted Harriet Jones! Oh noes!

RTD himself has said this is the case, and there was going to be dialogue to that effect in "Last of the Time Lords", only he decided the Doctor had "suffered enough".

[snorkackcatcher]

Nothing to indicate who it was -- it's not even clear if it's a student or a Death Eater. At a guess, I'd say one of the latter that Lavender was fighting.

[snorkackcatcher]

You're sgreeing with RTD? *looks up nervously in case sky is falling* :D

Suggests that he hasn't thought it through either then. Is the interview online anywhere?

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

"[T]hrown backwards from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown" does imply to me that he had at least reached her, but surely if he had bitten her while he was in wolf form, she would have become a werewolf, not just been scarred. Bill was only scarred because he was attacked while Fenrir was in human form. So since there's no talk of Lavender becoming a werewolf, the logical explanation is that Hermione saved her in time.

[lizbee.livejournal.com]

I agree that the cause and effect were intentional, yes. I don't know if the interview is online -- it was in a DWM, melyanna quoted it in a locked entry. I'll see if I can dig it up when I get home from work.

[tree_and_leaf]

I took the HP passage as implying that Lavender had probably been bitten, once (though I see it's much less clear-cut than I thought), but the massive scarring is clearly ridiculous (and the trope about breasts strikes me as a bit dodgy, somehow).

It's the 'do balrogs have fluffy slippers wings?' debate for a new generation!

[ex-jo-blogs.livejournal.com]

It's a bit ambiguous but I agree that the character point about Hermione saving Lavender is the purpose of the scene and it's a quick bite at worst. I took it to mean that she was saved from being savaged, i.e. anything like as badly injured as Bill, but that he had reached her and sunk his teeth before Hermione's blast threw him back. That's the way I'd go with it anyway - that Lavender was not left scarred but was slightly poisoned by Greyback's bite, and the psychological after effects of the attack would perhaps be less significant than the physical damage from the actual bite (thus reinforcing the bond with Hermione, who would is also psychologically scarred from being tortured by Bellatrix and threatened with Greyback). But hideous scarring? Definitely not in the text. It constantly amazes me how differently people read things. I knew someone who after reading this scene thought that Lavender was dead!

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

Years later, Lavender Brown would occasionally find herself resenting Hermione’s quick actions. Of course, she didn’t actually wish she had been savaged by Fenrir Greyback and left with severe disfigurement and lycanthropy, but a single delicate scar, perhaps from the corner of her eye to her hairline (she had experimented with make-up pencils), would have been a poignant reminder of all they had suffered. It would also have given her classmates something to remember her by other than “D’you remember how Lavender Brown fancied a centaur”. The founder of the robe-make for fashionable young witches, and people still made snide remarks about pony-skin shoes. A werewolf’s tufted tail for her trademark would have been much cooler.

Lavender hideously scarred by Greyback - Oh no!

[nell-aria.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the purpose of this narrative is that we glimpse Greyback in seriously-nasty-foe mode and Hermione *saving* her old love rival from the same kind of mauling Bill suffered the year before. Greyback, of course, was *not* in werewolf form - if he had been, so would Lupin, and we know that not to be the case. Harry, through whose eyes we witness Greyback's attack, does not recognise the 'grey blur' bounding on four legs towards the fallen bodies, but Hermione reacts quickly, before he can even determine what is going on. I think Lavender may have suffered a bite - most probably on her arm or shoulder, a part of the body which Greyback could then use to drag her by - but Hermione was quick and he was thrown back from Lavender before he had time to do any more serious damage.
I don't think Lavender was badly scarred by the bite, and readers trying to interpret it in that way are clearly those who want to obsess on the pathos of beauty ruined. JKR gave us that with Bill; I'm sure she didn't intend us to experience it again with Lavender.

[clipsie.livejournal.com]

On the Doctor Who one, I agree. The Doctor couldn't help it. Thinking now, it could be directly faulted by Jack and the Tardis. As, if it wasn't for the Tardis not wishing Jack to be there, then they never would have met the Master. Ah well, can't help it now.

In other words, I fairly agree with you.

[quietliban.livejournal.com]

WORD. On the Lavender thing. It's been giving me the shits.

(Ah, yeah, that's all I've got).

[snorkackcatcher]

He definitely wasn't a wolf -- Remus wasn't, and presumably all werewolves change at the same time. I could buy one bite leaving an unpleasant scar, but no more.

[snorkackcatcher]

No, no, Snapes bats have fluffy slippers. That's obvious. (And yes, the 'breasts' bit is rather dodgy. There's an implication of kinkiness with Greyback, but he seems to be more into mutilation than anything else.)

[snorkackcatcher]

Yes, you'd think the phrase 'feebly stirring' would contradict that, wouldn't you? I must admit I missed the implication that she'd fallen from the balcony rather than just having been Stunned or whatever. The bite isn't mentioned later (well, Lavender isn't as far as I can see), so JKR at least isn't emphasising any tragic aspects there may be!

[snorkackcatcher]

*snicker* Poor Lavender. What can you do, eh?

Re: Lavender hideously scarred by Greyback - Oh no!

[snorkackcatcher]

Yes, the contrast between the two appears to be a point of the scene -- mind you, it's just a throwaway scene and this is probably overanalysis, but that's what fans do, right? :) As I say, one bite is plausible, although not definite, but not more.

[snorkackcatcher]

Glad to know people agree. :)

[snorkackcatcher]

Yeah, a number of events clearly contributed to it. If RTD talked about this (as lizbee mentioned above) I'm not sure he really thought it through. He is, after all, somewhat prone to the occasional plot hole. :)

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

He wasn't? Hmm, I had assumed from "a grey blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged" that he was in wolf form, but I guess it was just Fenrir being wolfy as a human. (I find it hard to imagine any human "speeding" on all fours, but eh, this is JKR, so I can suspend a bit of disbelief, I suppose.)

[snorkackcatcher]

I guess the idea would be that he was so in touch with his inner wolf that he had a reasonable amount of practice at it?